Finnock to Sea Trout

[holly]

Hi there to everyone.

I have just had a recent conversation with two River Keepers with reference to the above.

My concern is such that, anglers are entering catch returns as Sea Trout, when they are indeed Finnock and, this could have consequences (rise in permit costs).

From my point of view anything less than 13 inches/33cm, are Herling/Finnock, or young Sea Trout.

Please forward your opinions.

Thanks in anticipation, holly.

[Teifi-Terrorist]

In my eyes Holly a sea trout is a sea trout, no matter how long they have spent at sea. Very much the same as grilse still very much being salmon and I'm sure river keepers would not omit them from their final tally

It would also be wise to remember that these zero sea winter fish make up the main run in most rivers, but may vary in size from river to river due to; feeding at sea, feeding in the river before they head to sea, the length they spend at sea before returning or, indeed, the age they decide to migrate to sea in the first place.

A lot of variables to chew over but one common theme; it's a trout that has gone to see be it for 4 months or longer and by that definition alone they are all sea trout. All of the other names given to them are merely local 'nicknames'.

All sea trout are wild and should be a pleasure to catch, regardless of size. As such, I think it would be foolish to hold one in higher regard than another due to size.

TT.

[holly]

Finnock to Sea Trout

In my eyes Holly a sea trout is a sea trout, no matter how long they have spent at sea. Very much the same as grilse still very much being salmon and I'm sure river keepers would not omit them from their final tally

It would also be wise to remember that these zero sea winter fish make up the main run in most rivers, but may vary in size from river to river due to; feeding at sea, feeding in the river before they head to sea, the length they spend at sea before returning or, indeed, the age they decide to migrate to sea in the first place.

A lot of variables to chew over but one common theme; it's a trout that has gone to see be it for 4 months or longer and by that definition alone they are all sea trout. All of the other names given to them are merely local 'nicknames'.

All sea trout are wild and should be a pleasure to catch, regardless of size. As such, I think it would be foolish to hold one in higher regard than another due to size.

TT.

Many thanks TT for your rapid reply, however, even though I agree with your definition, most fisheries do not count finnock or young Sea Trout on their cumulative catch returns. (This seems to be the case on the rivers that I have had the pleasure to fish). They still record the Finnock catches, but differentiate in the final tally.

Regards, holly.

[Teifi-Terrorist]

Many thanks TT for your rapid reply, however, even though I agree with your definition, most fisheries do not count finnock or young Sea Trout on their cumulative catch returns. (This seems to be the case on the rivers that I have had the pleasure to fish). They still record the Finnock catches, but differentiate in the final tally.

Regards, holly.

What fisheries are they Holly? They are certainly not differentiated in England and Wales on any river through EA/NRW catch returns. You just get a cumulative sea trout figure.

Indeed, even revered private fisheries such as Abercothi and Golden Grove on the River Towy do not make this differentiation, and nor should they in my opinion.

TT.

[Thom]

Hmmmm?

Here are some questions ( answers not on a postcard please)

It is said that sea trout are brown trout (freshwater fish et al) which have made the choice to go to sea and (in our eyes) become seatrout when they return.I grasp that concept and more or less understand it. My questions are: what are salmon? They are spawned in streams, they swim up rivers on their way to spawn and they predominantly live in the seas and mostly they seem to return to the river they were spawned in. How does that happen?( not at all unlike sea trout.) Which came first-the salmon or the egg? And apart from a few very minor differences; they are almost but not quite, the same as sea trout! Why don't other freshwater fish act similarly i.e. grayling, char, some wild(ish)rainbows etc.? In another vein, i know of a fisherman who lives in Sweden who has; this year caught in his local river, tagged scottish sea trout! What is going on there? My main point is, this year on the Teifi overall, the fishing has been terrible(unless you are/were nocturnal and 'ahem' 'fishing' for sea trout.) I know i am a minnow(contradiction in terms) on here so come on boys, give me some answers. (i cannot wait to see them.)

[T7]

Here are some questions ( answers not on a postcard please)

It is said that sea trout are brown trout (freshwater fish et al) which have made the choice to go to sea and (in our eyes) become seatrout when they return.I grasp that concept and more or less understand it. My questions are: what are salmon? They are spawned in streams, they swim up rivers on their way to spawn and they predominantly live in the seas and mostly they seem to return to the river they were spawned in. How does that happen?( not at all unlike sea trout.) Which came first-the salmon or the egg? And apart from a few very minor differences; they are almost but not quite, the same as sea trout! Why don't other freshwater fish act similarly i.e. grayling, char, some wild(ish)rainbows etc.? In another vein, i know of a fisherman who lives in Sweden who has; this year caught in his local river, tagged scottish sea trout! What is going on there? My main point is, this year on the Teifi overall, the fishing has been terrible(unless you are/were nocturnal and 'ahem' 'fishing' for sea trout.) I know i am a minnow(contradiction in terms) on here so come on boys, give me some answers. (i cannot wait to see them.)

As salmon can only breed in freshwater it is widely accepted that they evolved in freshwater.

[holly]

What fisheries are they Holly? They are certainly not differentiated in England and Wales on any river through EA/NRW catch returns. You just get a cumulative sea trout figure.

Indeed, even revered private fisheries such as Abercothi and Golden Grove on the River Towy do not make this differentiation, and nor should they in my opinion.

TT.

I am fishing the River Lune on both Association and Private Beats.

I never take a Sea Trout less than 2lbs. (18 inch long), or more than a brace of Sea Trout in any session.

The information you have provided is very useful, many thanks.

Regards, TT.

[Teifi-Terrorist]

I am fishing the River Lune on both Association and Private Beats.

I never take a Sea Trout less than 2lbs. (18 inch long), or more than a brace of Sea Trout in any session.

The information you have provided is very useful, many thanks.

Regards, TT.

No worries Holly. Different fisheries will have different viewpoints I'm sure. However, the zero sea winter fishery largely determine the health of the fishery, so a valuable figure to keep track of. Further to that - not a lecture I can assure you, just some insight - you would be better off taking the sea trout of under 2 lbs rather than over, as the majority if not all of the zero sea winter sea trout would be sexually immature whereas all of the 2 lbs + sea trout would be sexually mature, therefore hugely beneficial to the river.

TT.

[holly]

No worries Holly. Different fisheries will have different viewpoints I'm sure. However, the zero sea winter fishery largely determine the health of the fishery, so a valuable figure to keep track of. Further to that - not a lecture I can assure you, just some insight - you would be better off taking the sea trout of under 2 lbs rather than over, as the majority if not all of the zero sea winter sea trout would be sexually immature whereas all of the 2 lbs + sea trout would be sexually mature, therefore hugely beneficial to the river.

TT.

Hi TT, when I fished on the Border - Esk the River Keeper implemented a 3lb. maximum limit, so what you are saying makes sense, however, after Mid-June, I tend to release the female species.

With reference to your quotation, I very much appreciate it and, indeed all your comments.
Regards, HH.

[Teifi-Terrorist]

Hi TT, when I fished on the Border - Esk the River Keeper implemented a 3lb. maximum limit, so what you are saying makes sense, however, after Mid-June, I tend to release the female species.

With reference to your quotation, I very much appreciate it and, indeed all your comments.
Regards, HH.

No worries at all Holly, happy to help and glad you see my replies in the way that they are certainly intended.

A further piece here for you; larger males are a lot scarcer than females. The ratio of large females to males is likely to be around 2-1. As such, the genetics of these larger males could be more important than the females when it comes to the 3lbs+ fish. Something to consider anyway.

TT.

[holly]

No worries at all Holly, happy to help and glad you see my replies in the way that they are certainly intended.

A further piece here for you; larger males are a lot scarcer than females. The ratio of large females to males is likely to be around 2-1. As such, the genetics of these larger males could be more important than the females when it comes to the 3lbs+ fish. Something to consider anyway.

TT.

Cheers TT, we need people like you, to help conserve our wonderful stocks of Sea Trout.
Holly.

[holly]

Cheers TT, we need people like you, to help conserve our wonderful stocks of Sea Trout.
Holly.

Hi TT, if you are ever in the vicinity of the River Lune, in June, July or August and you need some fishing, just get in touch. I would be delighted to fish with you. Holly.

[andyantiquefly]

I thought the 20inch rule on the Teifi a very sensible idea as they are the best eating anyway,for the most part most fishermen I bump into pick and choose there fish on freshness and size,nothing worse than pics of large dead sewin with all the colour drained out of em.
I get as much a buzz fishing for small shoal fish in September on the Dwyfor,last few years there has been hundreds of em which bodes well for em returning as bigger fish next year..

[holly]

I thought the 20inch rule on the Teifi a very sensible idea as they are the best eating anyway,for the most part most fishermen I bump into pick and choose there fish on freshness and size,nothing worse than pics of large dead sewin with all the colour drained out of em.
I get as much a buzz fishing for small shoal fish in September on the Dwyfor,last few years there has been hundreds of em which bodes well for em returning as bigger fish next year..

Cheers andyantiquefly.

Regards, HH.